Sven Ingvars - Fröken Fräken


Fröken Fräken

Jag har sett Miss Grekland
Jag har sett Miss Kina
Nästan alla världens vackra Misser har jag mött
Och jag tyckte alla sköna var och fina
Men när jag kom hem till Värmland
Mötte jag en värmlandsjänta
Och hon är för mig det allra sötaste bland sött
Lilla söta Fröken Fräken
Ifrån Fryken
Blev Miss Värmland nu i år
Och alla värmlandspulsar slår
När hon genom staden går
Lilla söta Fröken Fräken
Ifrån Fryken
Hon är blond som ängens råg
Vackrast utav alla flickorna jag såg
Hon ger bilden av det sköna Värmeland
Och hon passar ej vid Medelhavets strand
Hon med sjöarna och skogarna
Vill vandra hand i hand
Och som karlstadsola skiner hon så glatt
Och hon lockar oss till kärleksfulla små skratt
Hon är den som jag beundrar mest
Och ni ska veta att
Lilla söta Fröken Fräken
Ifrån Fryken
Hon är blond som ängens råg
Vackrast utav alla flickorna jag såg
Hon ger bilden av det sköna Värmeland
Och hon passar ej vid Medelhavets strand
Hon med sjöarna och skogarna
Vill vandra hand i hand
Och som karlstadsola skiner hon så glatt
Och hon lockar oss till kärleksfulla skratt
Hon är den som jag beundrar mest
Och ni ska veta att
Lilla söta Fröken Fräken
Ifrån Fryken
Hon är blond som ängens råg
Vackrast utav alla flickorna jag såg
Submitted by Velsket on Mon, 05/02/2018 - 20:04



Translations of "Fröken Fräken"
Sven Ingvars: Top 3
Loot    Tue, 06/02/2018 - 02:04

Wow, @Velsket, where did you find this song? To me it's rather unexpected that a non-Swedish person would know of it. Regular smile

Technically this is a Thore Skogman song; he wrote it and recorded it first, but the Sven-Ingvars version was still released first of them, so it's fine to have it listed on their artist page, but I think Thore Skogman at least ought to be included in "Also performed by".

In the 3rd & 5th stanza's 2nd line, there's a missing space: "Medelhavetsstrand" -> "Medelhavets strand"

Velsket    Tue, 06/02/2018 - 13:07

Hello there Loot, I search here and there on the Youtube for great songs like this because I'm currently trying to learn Swedish. So I'm always happy when I find a song like this, especially the classic older ones Regular smile

I have edited in your corrections and featured the original artist, so thanks for that!

Also thanks for your excellent translation of it; I've learned a lot not only linguistically but also geographically and culturally. Highly appreciate it Regular smile


Loot    Tue, 06/02/2018 - 18:12

Ah, you're learning Swedish? That's so cool! If you ever need help with anything to do with it, just let me know. Regular smile

Thank you, I appreciate that! Sometimes I feel that some of the originators of songs don't get proper credit here on LT.

Thanks! I always try to think "What would I have wanted explained to me if I didn't know this song?". Please be aware that some of the words used ("sköna" for "beautiful", "jänta" in "värmlandsjänta", and "fröken") are somewhat old-fashioned though, and "sola" in "karlstadsola" is even dialectal (in standard Swedish it would be "solen").

Velsket    Tue, 06/02/2018 - 20:54

Oh, very nice of you pointing out those old-fashioned words. I guess 'beautiful' is more commonly 'vacker' and 'a gal' can be more commonly 'en tjej', yeah? Mmm for fröken one would simply say miss also?

Thanks for offering help, most appreciated, hopefully I won't be a pain in the neck though. Jag hoppas jag kan prata snart med dig på svenska. Hopefully that wasn't too awful too haha Regular smile

Loot    Thu, 08/02/2018 - 15:58

Yes, you're right, "vacker" (or "vackra" to keep it plural like "sköna") would be a more common word for "beautiful", but conversely, "sköna" more commonly is used to mean "pleasant" or "comfortable" as in "sköna skor" ("comfortable shoes"). I used "gal" for "jänta", because it's somewhat colloquial, right? And "jänta", even though it was used more in the past, has probably never been the standard term for "girl". "Fröken" means "Miss", but it's just hardly ever used anymore (since the end of the 1960s, people in Sweden don't address each other with titles). I would say it's more common as a term for a female teacher, in the vocabulary of schoolchildren (but above elementary or early middle school no one would address or talk about their female teacher as "fröken").

Well, I would help you the best I could. I just wish I was better at grammar theory, because I'm pretty good at knowing how things should be, but unfortunately not always quite as good at explaining why... Hey, that's good! Teeth smile "Jag hoppas att jag snart kan prata med dig på svenska." would probably have been 100% (even though the conjunction "att" is sometimes dropped from everyday speech), but you were very close! Regular smile

[Edit: Corrected typo]

Velsket    Wed, 07/02/2018 - 19:29

Oh, thanks a lot for the thorough explanation of these words! That's a most interesting detail about personal titles and especially this deal with 'miss'. Oddly enough, Arabic also shares this idea of 'miss' being reserved for a female teacher. So I completely understand this idea. What strikes me as odd, or maybe I misunderstand, is this idea of not addressing each other with titles. I mean what about in the workplace. For example, a Jane Smith is Miss/Mrs Smith in English or Frau Smith in German and Anesa/Madam Smith in Arabic.. etc. No equivalent in Sweden?

Oh also your explaining is great and I understand that sometimes there are few or no explanations as to why something in a language is right so it works and I highly appreciate it. The business with 'att' seems to be close to that situation.

For example, I'm learning with Duolingo and it asked me to write this phrase in Swedish "He does not seem to understand what I am saying."
I wrote: "Han verkar inte att förstå vad jag säger"
But it was marked wrong and the right answer was "Han verkar inte förstå vad jag säger."
So it seems like I sometimes omit it when it should be there or the other way around, anyways most interesting. Not bad for my first sentence said to someone in Swedish I guess haha. Tack så mycket
Regular smile

Loot    Fri, 09/02/2018 - 16:55

It struck me that in the genitive case, it would be "sköna" (or any other adjective ending in "a") for nouns in singular too, as in "min sköna tröja", but now I kind of digress. Tongue smile

Perhaps female teachers of the pasts were always unmarried? I have no idea. Regular smile You did not misunderstand me about the titles: In Sweden, Jane Smith is Jane Smith (or even just "Jane", when being addressed verbally, unless there are many Janes and you have to differentiate between them). Like I said, the titles were phased out in the late 60s. You can read more about it here: Of course some titles still exist, and some are even protected by law, but other than in the armed forces and when addressing the royal family, they're not used in spoken language.

Sure, there might perhaps be times when there really is no explanation to why things are the way they are, but what I meant was that usually there probably is a good explanation, but I just don't know about it, because I don't have the underlying theoretical framework.

Duolingo is right. I wish I could explain why it can never be "att" there. Take this with a grain of salt (and I hope I'm not mis-educating you), but if the sentence was "Han kommer inte (att) förstå vad jag säger" instead, the "att" would be kind of optional (at least in everyday speech, which isn't alway grammatically correct). I guess I should read up on the subject... These things would be better to know than to just have a knack for. No, not bad at all! Regular smile Varsågod!

Velsket    Wed, 14/02/2018 - 17:24

Hey there, thanks again for taking the time to explain all this, I've learned a lot!

It is once again most interesting, this deal with the titles. Crazy how it can drastically differ like this between countries, especially ones not so geographically far from each other. It does sound refreshing not to have to think of someone's appropriate title before addressing them (for example as opposed to how it is in Japanese or Arabic). I expect at first it might be a bit weird for me to experience it first-hand, most fascinating Regular smile

And about grammatical explanations or theory, I guess I meant to say I'm always happy to be shown what's correct even if there's not really an explanation or the person doesn't know one. So, always appreciate your input on that front.

It takes time to get used to things like properly using 'att' or so but I think I'm getting better at it.
Jag tror jag förbättrar min svenska varje dag. Men jag behöver bara mer tid, och jag kommer förhoppningsvis att kunna skriva till dig mer på svenska. (An ambitious attempt on my part, hopefully not too much of a nightmare haha) Regular smile

Loot    Wed, 14/02/2018 - 18:26

Okay, I hope this is the last thing I will say about when to use adjective forms ending in "a", because I feel it's doing more to confuse you than help you (and this is what makes me a bad teacher), but I also realized that it's not just in the genitive case it can be used for nouns in singular, but also in the definite case: "den sköna tröjan".

Yes, but even though Sweden is linguistically and culturally related to countries like Germany, it doesn't mean everything is the same. And this thing with the titles wasn't something that gradually fell out of use over time, but it was more like a conscious effort to abolish them in everyday speech. I've learned that Herr and Frau (and Fräulein too, I suppose) are used on a daily basis in Germany, but I really don't think it's like that in Norway, Denmark and Finland (I've been in those countries many times, but have never thought about it before). I hope Swedish people don't come across as rude when they are abroad, just because they're not used to using titles (well, I wouldn't be surprised if Swedish tourists appear rude or uncultured for other reasons... I apologize on their behalf... Embarrassed smile ). I had too little knowledge of Arabic to know that titles are used a lot, but the honorific titles in Japanese have always fascinated me. Once I heard a Japanese aqcuaintance who has been living in Sweden for maybe 30-40 years, in a conversation in Swedish, refer to a young Japano-Swedish woman we both know well, as ****-chan, which I found really interesting. You said you need to think of someone's appropriate title before addressing themm, so I guess many different titles are used in Arabic?

Alright. I just feel it would be more helpful to you if I could say "it's like this, because of this and this..."; to be able to teach you the rules instead of on a case by case basis.

Hey, that's great! I think you nailed it! Teeth smile I would say that using "att" in the first sentence ("Jag tror att jag...") would be optional, and you chose not to, so that's fine. Regular smile
(Well, grammatically there probably isn't such a thing as optionally using "att", and in general you might want to aim higher than the average Swede's everyday speech, because I think too many Swedes (even ethnic Swedes) speak rather poor Swedish, grammatically and vocabulary-wise. Confused smile )

Velsket    Wed, 14/02/2018 - 19:12

Well to be honest, adjective declension is the one area I don't fully understand. But I know such things sort themselves out with enough exposure to the language and different cases where these adjectives show up.

Yeah, I was sure there would be a lot of cultural differences. It was just a bit surprising learning how different the stances are towards the titles. I mean a lot of Germans do feel very strongly about titles and there are many scenarios using Du instead of Sie can cause trouble. On the other hand, Sweden collectively does away with the whole concept, Regular smile intriguing for someone interested in both languages. I have met a lot of Swedes though while living in Germany and they all respected the titles and acted very respectfully frankly. The fact that I didn't know they had no titles in their own country is rather good proof of that.

Also yeah, Arabic speakers do like their titles. I'll speak about Egypt since it's where I come from and know best. To give you an idea here's a bunch of titles from there:
Anesa/mademoiselle (unmarried woman)
Madam (married woman or a woman that has been married)
Ostaz (Mr. , neutral)
Ostaza ( female version of Mr. , neutral)
Mohandes (Engineer or someone who crafts something/works with technology)
Sheikh (a true sheikh or someone who studied/has wide knowledge of religion)
Hagg (Someone who made the pilgrimage to Mecca or alternatively someone very old)
Doctor (medical doctor or university professor, the two categories of people who will be most pissed if you drop their title lol)
Maali el wazir (Your highness Mr. Minister)
Seyadat Al Qadi (something like: the great Mr. Judge.. used only in court)
Seyadet Al Safeer (Mr. Ambassador)

And so on and on and on.. Of course there are more military, political and religious titles...You get my point.

And of course we have something like "Du" and "Sie" from German (enta and hadretak respectively). And age and social standings play a significant role in it. Like, I know a lot of people who address their own parents with the Sie equivalent. And to address your teacher with the du equivalent for example can also be problematic.

Going back to Swedish, I feel like I sometimes drop 'att' for fear that it cannot be used in the scenario I'm in. But you're right, I think I should do that and try to figure it out more. Anyways, I kind of wrote an essay on my language learning endeavors and country titles so, sorry for that haha. Teeth smile

Loot    Wed, 14/02/2018 - 23:12

I think that, once you learn it in a more structured way, you will find that the adjective declension follows some set rules, without any exceptions that I can think of. Regular smile

Yes, I haven't spent much time in Germany, but I remember from German class that titles, as well as using Sie instead of du to show proper respect, like you mentioned, was very important. I'm sure it must have taken a big mental shift to stop using titles back in those days in Sweden. I'm glad to hear the Swedes you have met have acted properly. Yeah, that's a good point! Teeth smile

Ah, that's very interesting... I had heard a couple of them before, like getting a special title for having made the pilgrimage, but most of them were new to me. One thing I don't quite grasp though, is this thing with Ostaza: You said it's a female version of Mr; what did you mean by that? Is there any other case than unmarried or married? Or do you mean that Ostaza doesn't reveal marital status? Regular smile

Oh, yeah, because you also get a certain status from being old, right? It seems the Egyptian society is very hierarchical, if you have to address even your parents respectfully (not saying that the average Swede disrespects their parents though, but there is just no extra respectful way to address them). Without knowing for certain, in English-speaking countries, I think it's highly unusual to be on a first-name basis with your teacher, and not addressing them in the correct way would probably get you in trouble.

Hey, no worries! I wouldn't ask about things like the use of titles in Arabic if I wasn't genuinely interested, and I must say I quite enjoy this conversation. Regular smile

Velsket    Fri, 16/02/2018 - 01:07

True about declension, I haven't yet studied their rules in a structured manner so it's no surprise. I have gotten my hands on a Swedish textbook though so hopefully things will get better in this department Regular smile

Also yeah I now realize how vague what I wrote about Ostaz(a) is. What I meant is exactly the second thing you wrote, it doesn't reveal marital status or social standing or anything. So ostaza is like the English title Ms. (miz) I guess. Egyptians sure love their titles and names a lot lol. For example, I have 5 consecutive names on my passport, which is always fun to explain at the airport... Regular smile (ps. my actual full name would be 9 names, so... yeah)

This brings me to what you said about the society being hierarchical which is most definitely true in my opinion. Parents, teachers, and generally anyone with educative authority or so is almost sacred. For example, sending one's parents to an old people's home is considered one of the most ungrateful and terrible things you can do. Compared to a place like Germany, such mentality exists only rarely.

But the different quality of these places between Europe and Egypt can partially account for such differences. Still I'd venture to say it's mostly because of the hierarchical structure of the society in Egypt. On the front of the general population, the society also follows the same formula. It's arranged in a pyramid shape based on money, power and status as you might imagine.

Oh wait, that pun was not intended.. Anyways, hope you have a great weekend. Teeth smile