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Voting too often

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Super Member
Joined: 17.12.2015
Pending moderation

The concept of voting too often, especially when a translator requests proofreading, is preposterous. I have voted twice (maybe thrice?) in the last 10 minutes, and the second (or third?) vote was rejected because I supposedly vote too often? O sorry, I will try to refrain from proofreading translations in the future!

No, but seriously: this cannot be the purpose of the rating system, to vote only once in a blue moon. If there is voting function, I damn well want to be able to use it.

If lyricstranslate.com does not want its users to use the rating system, then it should disable it, and in its stead put an alternative (other than just commenting) to proofread translations.

Moderator of Romance Languages
Joined: 31.03.2012

Oh boy, it's been quite a while since I had to remember how this works. It seems one can only vote 3 times a day @lt please verify this. The reason for this was to resolve an issue LT has had before with "groups" or individuals abusing the voting system to give each other 5 stars or unfairly give out 1 stars to people they disliked (so the ratings were more of a way of thanking friends or being petty to other users). I rarely vote unless it's for one of two reasons: 1. the translation was excellent, I couldn't have done better myself or 2. the translation is horrible (the user clearly used GT or something similar) or the translation was made disregarding any references that could have been made to other users who wouldn't know what they meant.

Ironic Iron ֍ The Black Sun
Joined: 20.11.2016

It seems that there are still several of these "in-groups" here on LT, now giving each other automatic thanks for every translation a group member makes (instead of 5 stars as before). Many low quality translations quickly receive dozens/hundreds of thanks (often from many guests in addition to group members) and get established as a go-to reference, when in fact they are misleading the readers. That's one of the reasons LT has gained a reputation of being a clannish, intolerant, and unreliable source.

Moderator and Scholar of a Dark Age
Joined: 16.02.2011

Thanks pretty much mean nothing, though, and they are also much less visible than votes.

Moderator and Scholar of a Dark Age
Joined: 16.02.2011

And is there really a daily limit? I thought you just need to wait a few minutes between votes, in order to encourage users to actually check whether their rating is justified and to give proper feedback. But it's possible that this was changed in the meantime, I don't vote often.

Moderator sapiens sapiens
Joined: 05.04.2012

Take in consideration that just about everyone can come to the website and thank people as it's not mandatory for non-users to open an account just for thanking. And I'm pretty sure that 80% of the general public will only thank the translation for existing, not taking in consideration their quality/accuracy. Voting, one way or another, is a better resource - though it was constantly abused (and I agree with the vote-per-day limit, though I do think that the number should be higher).

Honestly, I only thank translations that I either requested or that someone added before I did (specially in cases of famous songs) that I think of as being of good quality. And I almost never vote, except in translations where proofreading was requested.

Editor True-to-original translations.
Joined: 29.08.2015

As the saying goes, .... it's who you know. Regular smile
I think that what really matters is the number of "reads" a translation receives. The "thanks" only show common courtesy. I have a translation that was read about 60,000 time but received only 8 "thanks" Omg smile . As far as the voting is concerned, even though a lot of them are genuine, I have seen quite a few where the translation had extreme interpretation flaws but received lots of 5 star ratings... I imagine you can draw your own conclusion from that.

Moderator and Scholar of a Dark Age
Joined: 16.02.2011
MichaelNa wrote:

As the saying goes, .... it's who you know. Regular smile
I think that what really matters is the number of "reads" a translation receives. The "thanks" only show common courtesy. I have a translation that was read about 60,000 time but received only 8 "thanks" Omg smile . As far as the voting is concerned, even though a lot of them are genuine, I have seen quite a few where the translation had extreme interpretation flaws but received lots of 5 star ratings... I imagine you can draw your own conclusion from that.

Even those show only popularity and curiosity. My most recent translation, which I published 3 weeks ago, has 6 reads, and I suppose all of them are by me. My second most recent one I published on the same day and it has 121 reads now. It's by a much more well-known band.
Both are English to German. (albeit the most recent one is added as German to German since the original text is bilingual)

Also, you can only see the number of reads on your own translations.

Editor True-to-original translations.
Joined: 29.08.2015

I'm aware of all that, I was just trying to point out that both the "thanks" and/or "votes" do not really matter because they can be misleading i.e. self awarded (as a guest) or awarded by "friends" but if a translation has been read by a lot of people it can only mean that a lot of people have been reached: if translator reads his own translation hundreds of times to accumulate "reads" he is only fooling himself.

Editor and cheeky nitpicker
Joined: 14.09.2013

Frankly it seems a bit pointless to put one's ego at stake there.
Obviously some viewers will eagerly welcome any piece of junk rather than wait a couple of days for something readable, especially on popular songs.
That's only a reflection of the consumerism that rules the planet at the moment. That's what makes me consider Internet fame a joke. Nothing but fool's gold, really.

One of my most thanked translations must be an obscure French pop song from the 60's that has apparently been used recently in some beer commercial. I consider that "glory" worth an amused smile at best.

I know a couple dozen translators whose style I came to like over the years, so I regularly thank them for providing me with pleasant things to read. Just a friendly gesture toward people I know.
I also thank other people when I find a translation pleasant or interesting to read.
All this is just a reflection of my personal taste, subjective opinions. Nothing like quality measurement.

Stars I use only to point out translations I find really good, mostly when a collective effort produced a fine result, or especially bad, mostly when people answer requests with gibberish or when appalling translations of popular songs overshadow good ones.

On the other hand, I tend to refrain from thanking or rating people who clamour for recognition. I consider this craving pretty toxic and I would rather not fuel the addiction.

Ironic Iron ֍ The Black Sun
Joined: 20.11.2016

I tend to believe there is more to all this than seen by the eye. Some members have every translation of theirs thanked multiple times (with 10:1 and even 15:1 overall thanks-to-translations ratio!), and seeing that you'd think you found the greatest translator on Earth, but after reading their output you realize how weak, misunderstood, and misleading most of these translations are (not taking anything away from many really good translators out there). That makes me wonder how that is possible, considering that there is nothing special about the particular language pairs involved or the songs' popularity. To people who say that all this doesn't matter: please realize that's how the outside readers (guests) judge this site and its quality - they pick the highest rated, most thanked translation as a reference, and if it is subpar, that reflects on the entire site and its reputation. Good translations without ratings/thanks are ignored, and I see that every day. Just my 2 cents.

Editor and cheeky nitpicker
Joined: 14.09.2013

What should we care about the site rating, really? It's not as if we got paid for our work Regular smile
As long as the admins get enough money to earn a living, that relative lack of popularity is fine by me.

I know no other place where you can find so many decent translations of so many songs.
You only have to spend a bit of time sorting through the garbage. I don't think that's such an overwhelming effort.
And if people prefer to consume junk translations, I'm also fine with that, as long as I'm not forced to do the same.

Many of the most popular sites around the Net are nothing but appalling cesspits. FB, YT, Twitter, Instagram....
Grotesque narcissism, consumerism, bar-room philosophy and lack of manners on a planetary scale.
I rather consider LT not being among them a blessing.

Super Member
Joined: 17.12.2015

Wow, I did not expect this topic to generate such a lively discussion. This is also my first time posting in the forum, so I do not know if this is a normal amount of discussion, or not.

ANYWAY, the way I see it, thanks are just that: a general appreciation. I use them to say "Hey, buddy, thank you for taking the time to do this translation. I really appreciate it.", or "Hey, buddy, thanks; this translation really helped me out."

The star-rating-system I use specifically to rate translations, and I do actually use all five levels of stars. For me, they actually have a meaning. If a translation is, say, generally good but missing that little something-something that would make it top-notch, I will give four stars, and a comment outlining what I did (not) like. I think translating songs can be a powerful learning tool of languages, especially when a native (or near-native fluent) speaker gives detailled feedback to those requesting proofreading, which is another AMAZING feature!

So it is just very frustrating when the system freezes one out after one's first or second rating, because one supposedly rates too often. In retrospect, had I known about the in-fighting and childish competition beforehand, I would not have gotten so worked up about it. (Sorry about that, by the way; I tend to get a bit overzealous when it comes to learning and teaching languages.)

And furthermore, awesome forum, thank you all for your help and contributions.

lt
Administrator
Joined: 27.05.2008

The following time limits apply to voting:

1) not more than one vote in three minutes, for all roles

2) not more than
- 3 votes in a day for Novice
- 10 votes in a day for Junior Member
- 20 votes for Member
- 30 votes for all others

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